My new Catholic apologetics website

Hey all, I am in the middle of developing a new Catholic Defender website. http://thecatholicdefender.webs.com/ Check it out!! Please register and become a member with me. I will continue to update the website daily with more info. Feel free to post comments on the blog, or even in the forums. God bless you all.

Dan

peachfuzz, the anti-catholic. pt.1

I thank you for replying.

John 14:6 (New International Version)
6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. {Yes, I agree with you on this, but let me put His saying in context. No one gets salvation from anyone but Jesus. Jesus said many things dealing with salvation.}
Does Jesus say that No one can come to the Father but by me +, {This is not a statement of the things Jesus has commanded us to do in order to gain salvation. Jesus is saying that the things He requires us to "do" must be done in and through Jesus for us to be granted salvation. As you can see, I have given you plenty of verses to back up my statements.}

being confirmed? Acts 19:5-6 - Paul imposed hands on baptized, received Holy Spirit. Acts 8:14-17 - laid hands upon them, they received Holy Spirit. 2Cor 1:21-22 - put seal on us and given Holy Spirit in our hearts. Eph 1:13 - you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit. Heb 6:2 - instruction about baptism & laying on of hands

being baptised? Jn 3:5; Mk 16:16 - baptism required for entering heaven. 1Cor 15:21-22 - in Adam all die, in Christ all made alive. Mk 10:14 - let children come; to such belongs the kingdom. Lk 18:15 - people were bringing even infants to him... Col 2:11-12 - baptism has replaced circumcision. Jos 24:15 - as for me and my house, we will serve Lord. Mt 8:5. - daughter healed because of centurion's faith. Mt 15:21. - daughter healed because of Canaanite woman's faith. Lk 7:1. - just say the word, and let my servant be healed. Acts 16:31 - believe in Lord Jesus you & house will be saved. Acts 16:15 - she was baptized, with all her household. Acts 16:33 - he and all his family were baptized at once. 1Cor 1:16 - I baptized the household of Stephanas.

praying to anyone else? Eph 6:18-19 - making supplication for all the saints & for me. Tob 12:12 - angel presents Tobit & Sarah's prayer to God. Ps 148 - David calls upon angels
Zech 1:12 - angel intercedes for Jerusalem. Mk 12:25, Mt 22:30 - men in heaven are as the angels. Rev 5:8 - those in heaven offer prayers of the holy ones to God. Mk 12:26-27 - he is God of the living, not of the dead. Mk 9:4 - Jesus seen conversing with Elijah & Moses. Lk 9:31 - Elijah & Moses aware of earthly events. Rev 6:9-11 - martyrs under altar want earthly vindication. Heb 12:1 - we are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses. Lk 16:19-30 - departed rich man intercedes for brothers. Rev 20:4 - saw the souls of those who had been beheaded .

genuflecting? Who said genuflecting has anything to do with salvation? It is nothing more then a sign of respect.

Adoration of the eucherist? In order to gain salvation? No, but as a Catholic we take Jesus at his words. We Jn 1:29 - Jesus called "Lamb of God". Mt 26:26 (Mk 14:22., Lk22:17.) - Eucharist instituted. Mt 26:26 (Mk 14:22., Lk 22:17.) - Eucharist instituted. 1Cor 10:16 - Eucharist = participation in Christ's body & blood. 1 Cor 11:23-29 - receiving unworthily his body & blood. Ex 12:8, 46 - Paschal lamb had to be eaten. Jn 1:29 - Jesus called "Lamb of God". 1 Cor 5:7 - Jesus called "paschal lamb who has been sacrificed. Jn4:31-34; Mt 16;5-12 - Jesus talking symbolically about food. 1Cor 2:14-3:4 - explains what "the flesh" means in Jn 6:63.

confessing sins to anyone else? Mt 9:2-8 Son of Man has authority to forgive sins. Jn 20:23 - whose sins you forgive/retain are forgiven/retained. Jn 20:22 - breathed on them, "receive Holy Spirit" [recall Gn 2:7] 2Cor 5:17-20 - given us the ministry of reconciliation. Jam 5:13-15 - confess your sins to one another. Mt 18:18 - whatever you bind & loose on earth, so it is in heaven. Why would Jesus instruct the apostles about binding and loosing of sins, if no one confessed their sins to them? How do you make sense out of this verse if we are not to confess to anyone but God? Explain this one for me, please....

ECT, ECT,, ECT, AD NAUSEUM!

Need I go on? Yes, I think you do.

Catholicism is a cult, because the attatch all the THINGS that catholics have to do, in order to know God, when Jesus CLEARLY STATES HERE that HE & HE ALONE is all that is needed to come to the Father! As I have shown you, Jesus said a lot more then your quote. I have another view. The church Jesus founded (the Catholic church) has held to His teaching more then ANY other christian church in existance. I will furvently defend "any" of the Catholic doctrines, and I will do it using only the bible.

Look at what Scripture says here:

Revelation 22:18 (New International Version)

18I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.

Many will say the this only refers to Revelation, which is a lie, These word apply to the WHOLE BIBLE, because the Bible is a book of prophecy, from Genesis to Revelation!
Again, I agree with you. Why are you using a bible that someone (Martin Luther) took 7 books out of your bible. So, by your own words you are using a tainted bible. The Catholic church did not add any books. Look it up. 392 A.D. the Catholic church (the Pope and Bishops) under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, defined the books of the bible. From 392 A.D. to 1517A.D. when Luther removed these books, no one questioned the books of the bible.
You don't NEED anythjing BUT JESUS-not all this garbage & non-Biblical stuff that catholics preach! Jesus alone! Period! Well, I think I have put a big fail on this statement.

peachfuzz, the anti-catholic

I got this message from YA.

Look at what Jesus says here:

John 14:6 (New International Version)
6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Does Jesus say that No one can come to the Father but by me +

being confirmed?
being baptised?
praying to anyone else?
genuflecting?
Adoration of the eucherist?
confessing sins to anyone else?
ECT, ECT,, ECT, AD NAUSEUM!

Need I go on?

Catholicism is a cult, because the attatch all the THINGS that catholics have to do, in order to know God, when Jesus CLEARLY STATES HERE that HE & HE ALONE is all that is needed to come to the Father!

Look at what Scripture says here:

Revelation 22:18 (New International Version)

18I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.

Many will say the this only refers to Revelation, which is a lie, These word apply to the WHOLE BIBLE, because the Bible is a book of prophecy, from Genesis to Revelation!

You don't NEED anythjing BUT JESUS-not all this garbage & non-Biblical stuff that catholics preach! Jesus alone! Period!

update on the fallen away catholic.....???

I have not had anymore e-mails from Erik since my last reply. So I got into another conversation with an anti-catholic from yahoo answers called "peachfuzz."

fallen away Catholic cont...

My primary source of authority is God's Word, the Holy Scriptures. I do not base my beliefs on anything else. My beliefs must line up with God's Word, God's Word is not to be conformed to our beliefs. If I have been taught something that does not line up with what God has revealed in the Bible, then I must discard those beliefs as false. Ok, that being said. You must hold true to scripture right. When scripture shows someone teaching something that didn't go along with want Jesus taught, what did the apostles (Paul and Barnabas) do? They went to Peter and the others. What happened at this council? After much debate, Peter rose and spoke, after he finished speaking, all were silent. The issue was over-ruled by Peter. So, in keeping with your primary source of authority, God's word is telling you, when you see something that is not what Jesus taught; take it to the church. I did not leave the RCC because I didn't agree with its teachings. I left because it has teachings which contradicts the Scriptures. After writing you for the last few weeks, I have given you multiple scriptural references for your issues with the Catholic church. In my view you are ignoring these scriptural facts to follow your man-made traditions. The Protestant idea of the "Bible alone" (sola scriptura) is, ironically, nowhere in the Bible. The Bible speaks of an infallible Sacred Tradition and an infallible Church that has authority to interpret Scripture. The Bible even warns against sola scriptura. In the Old Testament God gave authority to his priests to interpret his laws and issue binding teaching based on those interpretations, even with regard to criminal and civil issues- both of which were dealt with by divine revelation (Lev. 20:1-27, 25:1-55). In the New Testament, he endowed the Church with infallibility in teaching.

In order to learn what the Truth is, we must have a standard for Truth in which to test all things. Truth is not found in man, but in God. If the RCC teachings come from God Himself, then its teachings will always agree with God's Word Just like I have shown you. I don't put my belief to the test, I study the Scriptures and believe what it says. No church is perfect because humans are not perfect. Only God is infallible in all things. I don't embrace all my church teaches, unless it lines up with what the Scriptures says. How can I know if my church's teachings are from God if I don't study the Scriptures?. Follow your own advice, read...>>> Acts 15: 1* But some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brethren, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved." 2 And when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and debate with them, Paul and Barnabas and some of the others were appointed to go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and the elders about this question. 3 So, being sent on their way by the church, they passed through both Phoenicia and Samaria, reporting the conversion of the Gentiles, and they gave great joy to all the brethren. 4 When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they declared all that God had done with them. 5 But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up, and said, "It is necessary to circumcise them, and to charge them to keep the law of Moses." 6 The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter. 7 And after there had been much debate, Peter rose and said to them, "Brethren, you know that in the early days God made choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 And God who knows the heart bore witness to them, giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us; 9 and he made no distinction between us and them, but cleansed their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why do you make trial of God by putting a yoke upon the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 But we believe that we shall be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will." 12 And all the assembly kept silence; and they listened to Barnabas and Paul as they related what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles.
The question is, are you afraid of the truth? If I were afraid of the truth , I wouldn't read the Bible.

Fallen away Catholic. Are you affraid of the truth?

Erik,

I see there is but one real issue you have with the Catholic church. AUTHORITY As you grew in your christian faith, when you came to a certain issue that you either didn't agree with or didn't understand, what did you do? Where do you go for advice you can trust to be true? There is nothing wrong when a person growing in his faith poses questions in an earnest quest for truth. That's how we learn what the truth is. No one, then should be afraid of entertaining "perhaps." Perhaps God doesn't exist. But perhaps he does. Perhaps the Catholic church is woefully wrong in her teachings. But perhaps the Catholic church's teaching come from God himself. These kinds of question must be entertained. Those who are afraid to put their beliefs to the test in this way are clinging to an ideology that they fear will not stand up to reality. On the other hand, those who seek the truth have no fear of surrendering their beliefs to reality. Entertaining the "perhaps" is the only way to the truth. It's the only path to the surety and freedom of faith.

Faith, however, is a gift that doesn't always come all at once. The Catholic church recognizes that an educational growth process is necessary in order that individual believers... may patiently be led forward arriving at a richer understanding and fuller integration of (Christ"s) mystery in their lives. Still, if the Catholic church is who she claims to be, then the gift of faith will ultimately lead the seeker of the truth to embrace all that she teaches. If in the end a person still protests what the church teaches, then that person doesn't really believe the Catholic church.

"Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened to you" Pose every question you've ever had about the Catholic church, entertain every "perhaps" you can think of, but don't be satisfied until you find the answers. The truth is not afraid of your questions. The question is, are you afraid of the truth???

Erik #2. Please give me some feed back on his comments

my comments are in blue.

You say the Bible is not meant to be the Christian's living manual. No, I did not say that. I agree the bible is the christian's living manual. Jesus told the apostles to teach, he did not tell them to write a book and give it to everyone and let them make up their own minds. Jesus set up the church as a teaching church. (Mat 28:18-20 NRSV-CE) And Jesus came and said to them, 'All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.' Let me ask you: How does one learn how to pray? (Mat 6:9 NRSV-CE) 'Pray then in this way: Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. Go to the Bible. It also says to avoid vain repetitions. What did Jesus do at Gethsemane? (Mat 26:44 NRSV-CE) So leaving them again, he went away and prayed for the third time, saying the same words. Is Jesus wrong? (Rev 4:8 NRSV-CE) And the four living creatures, each of them with six wings, are full of eyes all around and inside. Day and night without ceasing they sing, 'Holy, holy, holy, the Lord God the Almighty, who was and is and is to come.' Is John wrong?? Or, are using this verse out of context? vain = means simply to take it for an “empty” (“not good”) purpose. repetitions = constant repetition of the same phrase or the mechanical recitation of a long series of obscure or meaningless formulas. Erik, you are a starter man then this. The rosary is NOT empty or meaningless. Hail Mary full of Grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed are thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus. Holy Mary Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. (Luke 1:28; 2:42)

How do we avoid satan's temptations? Check the Bible. Jesus used the Scriptures to deal with satan. How do we know what are God's Commandments? The bible. How do we deal with a brother who errs?(Mat 18:15-17 NRSV-CE) 'If another member of the church sins against you, go and point out the fault when the two of you are alone. If the member listens to you, you have regained that one. But if you are not listened to, take one or two others along with you, so that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If the member refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if the offender refuses to listen even to the church, let such a one be to you as a Gentile and a tax-collector. How do we know if what is preached to us is true and not false teaching? Now we are getting to the main issue here. Who did Jesus give his authority to? Peter, and later the rest of the apostles. (bishops) and again what did Jesus tell the apostles to do before he departed into heaven? (Mat 28:18-20 NRSV-CE) And Jesus came and said to them, 'All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.' Lets take a closer look at these 3 verses. Jesus has all authority in heaven and on earth, and how did he send his apostles out into the world? With his authority. He told them to make disciples, (confirmation) baptizing, teaching them to obey everything He has commanded. What was the early church like? The teachings of the Apostles? These are the same thing. Read Acts. Go to the Bible. The Bible even says not to go beyond what is written. Where?

The religious leaders of Jesus' day were learned men who claimed to be pious and devout but they mixed man made traditions with the Truth and nullified the Word of God. Yes, I agree.Jesus called them white washed tombs. They added teachings such as washing hands before meals, etc which became unscriptural burdens not God's commandments. They endorsed legalistic bondage. Yes.

Many times Jesus said: "It is written," indicating the primacy of God's Word. Or He would say: "You err," or "you do not understand, because you have not read the Scriptures." He never said go to the Synagogue and have a rabbi read the Scriptures to you and interpret it for you. No? again I refer to (Mat 28:18-20 NRSV-CE) And Jesus came and said to them, 'All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.' The Bereans searched the Scriptures for themselves whenever Paul, Silas or someone else preached to them. That is right, Acts 17:11. they were being taught, and they were searching the old testament. They judged the preachers and what they taught by the Scriptures, not the other way around.

Jesus resisted the temptations of satan 3 times by saying: "It is written." Jesus said to the Jews: "You search the Scriptures thinking in them you have eternal life, but you don't do what it says!" John 5:39 says: "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. Yes, He was speaking to the pharisees. You are not taking the side of the pharisees are you? Paul warned: "see to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men...rather than according to Christ." (Col. 2:8). Jesus used the authority of Scriptures to rebuke false teachers. The only way false teachers can be confronted and exposed is in the power of God's Word. Yes.

The Jews considered that eternal life was revealed to them in their Scriptures, and that they had it, because they had the word of God in their hands. Jesus urged them to search those Scriptures with more diligence and attention. You do search the Scriptures, and you do well to do so. They did indeed search the Scriptures, but it was with a view to their own glory.They admired and overvalued themselves. Jesus said, Search the Scriptures, and it was spoken to them in the nature of an appeal. It is spoken to us as advising or commanding all Christians to search the Scriptures. Not only read them, and hear them, but search them; which indicates diligence in examining and studying them. We must search the Scriptures for everything pertaining to salvation is in there. As do I. I can not speak for other catholics, but in my parish we are encouraged to study daily. A Catholic Exegesis of Sacred Scripture has for 2,000 years been based on four rules in the Exegisis of Scripture fully defined Established by Pope Leo XIII in Providentissimus Deus (1893) seconded and confirmed by Pope Benedict XV in Spiritus Paraclitus (1920) and by Pope Pius XII in Divino Afflante Spiritu (1943) Pope Pius XII declared in Divino... that Leo's encyclical Providentisisimus for interpreting the bible to "the supreme guide in Biblical studies"

Four rules for interpreting the Bible for the Catholic Church

1. Always pay attention to the Magisterium the authority of the Church

2. Be guided by what the early fathers had to say about a particular passage.

3. Always to be guided by what the Bible has to say as a whole (not key phrases here and there for defining ones theology and ignoring passages which do not fit one's theology, see opening quote). One must take into account all of Scripture which pertains to a given doctrinal truth.

4. Always take the Bible Literally unless it is reasonably unattenable

Most outside of the Catholic Church would ignore rule number one. But all Christians outside of the Catholic church ought to pay attentions to the last three rules particulary rule number "2" and "3". Rule "2" states to always be guided by what the early church fathers had to say. Why? First we were not there to hear and see everything and can easily be fooled into reading something not there into Scripture or reading something out of Scripture. The First Fathers were trained by the Apostles and the preceding Fathers are closer to the time frame allowing for less corruption of the teachings to occur. We are 2,000 years removed from the original source. Second and Most Important is that Scripture is clear on this and is repeated often by Paul that we are to pay attention to both the Sacred Oral word as well as the Sacred Written word passed down.

The Apostle John concluded his gospel acknowledging that the life of Christ was too wonderful to be contained in any book. He was not commenting on the general purpose of Scripture or the need for tradition. Neither was he implying that he had left out of his book essential revelation received from Christ. He included in his gospel all the essential teachings of Christ necessary for salvation. Show me where it says just that. The RCC tries to claim that many things were left out of the Bible because John says nothing about 7 sacaments, Oh really?? (Joh 3:5 NRSV-CE) Jesus answered, 'Very truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. (Baptism). (Joh 6:53 NRSV-CE) So Jesus said to them, 'Very truly, I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. (Eucharist). (Joh 20:23 NRSV-CE) If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.' (Confession). (Joh 20:21 NRSV-CE) Jesus said to them again, 'Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.' (Holy Orders). humm, 4 out of the 7 sacraments, the sacrifice of the mass, penance, or an institiution such as the RCC. (Joh 21:15 NRSV-CE) When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, 'Simon son of John, do you love me more than these?' He said to him, 'Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.' Jesus said to him, 'Feed my lambs.'(Joh 21:16 NRSV-CE) A second time he said to him, 'Simon son of John, do you love me?' He said to him, 'Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.' Jesus said to him, 'Tend my sheep.'(Joh 21:17 NRSV-CE) He said to him the third time, 'Simon son of John, do you love me?' Peter felt hurt because he said to him the third time, 'Do you love me?' And he said to him, 'Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.' Jesus said to him, 'Feed my sheep.

Who told catholics they cannot interpret the Scriptures? Not God, but the RCC.(2Pe 3:15 NRSV-CE) and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given to him, (2Pe 3:16 NRSV-CE) speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures. (2Pe 3:17 NRSV-CE) You therefore, beloved, since you are forewarned, beware that you are not carried away with the error of the lawless and lose your own stability. If one is depending solely on a priest to tell them every Sunday what the Bible means, then one will remain woefully ignorant of the life giving riches which it contains. Here I agree with you, many Catholics have fallen way behind our protestant brothers. The Scriptures were written to all people, yes. not to popes or the Magisterium to be interpreted for lay people. no, this is the mission of the church, to teach. Paul delivered the uncorrupted Word of God to every man's conscience in the sight of God. (2 Cor. 4:2) Any time we allow others to interpret God's word for us, we leave ourselves open to deception. That's why Jesus is the only mediator between God and man. (1 Tim 2:5)

It isn't just popes who are guided by the Holy Spirit. The Bible tells us all born-again believers in Christ receive the indwelling Holy Spirit who testifies of God's truth. John 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.".context my friend, context. this is the last supper. Who was there? the apostles. Jesus was speaking to them. Can you remember everything Jesus said and did?

Since the books were written under the inspiration of God, they were canonical the moment they were written. A council was not necessary to affirm what was already true. Yes, it did. No book became canonical by the action of a church council. What the council did was determine which books did not meet certain tests for canonicity. Right, thanks for making my point.

We have the infallible Bible today, not because of the RCC, So you think all the gnostic gospels should have been in the bible? right... but because Almighty God has protected it and will continue to do so (Matt 5:18). One day we will all be held accountable for what we did with God's Word. It is His Word that will judge those who supplant God's authority with an authority of their own.